Posts by Ultimate Reality

11

looking for scans (Watchtower 2009, Informant 1955)

by processor in

jw
friends

for forthcoming witchtower articles, i'm looking for two scans.

1) the convention announcement in the june 2009 awake!

(english version of that page).

The "Generation" from 1897 to 2008

by Ultimate Reality in

startfragment.

for what's is worth (since this topic comes up frequently) here are, in simple terms, the primary teachings the society has used to define the "generation".

1897 a group of contemporary people.

Ultimate Reality

Thanks jwfacts; I don't mind at all, your site has been a tremendous resource for me personally.

38

Does anyone have a scan? - JUNE 15 2009 WT Study Edition

by Ultimate Reality in

jw
friends

this one has an important article on the faithful steward and the governing body.

cannot find one anywhere.... .

thank you in advance!.

The "Generation" from 1897 to 2008

by Ultimate Reality in

startfragment.

for what's is worth (since this topic comes up frequently) here are, in simple terms, the primary teachings the society has used to define the "generation".

1897 a group of contemporary people.

Ultimate Reality

For what's is worth (since this topic comes up frequently) here are, in simple terms, the primary teachings the Society has used to define the "Generation".

1897 – A group of contemporary people

“ Other uses of this Greek word (genea) prove that it is not used with the significance of race, but in reference to people living contemporaneously.” – Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 4, p. 602-03,

1927 – The anointed

“The irresistible conclusion therefore is that Jesus referred to the new creation when he said: “This generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled.” This then would be a strong indication that some members of the new creation will be on the earth at the time of Armageddon.” – Watchtower, February 15, 1927

1951 – A fixed period of time from 1914

"The length of time is indicated by him when he said, "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." (Matt. 24:34) The actual meaning of these words is, beyond question, that which takes a "generation" in the ordinary sense, as at Mark 8:12 and Acts 13:36, or for those who are living at the given period." – Watchtower, July 1, 1951 p.404

1995 – A group of contemporary people

“…Jesus was not departing from his established use of the term “this generation,” which he consistently applied to the contemporary masses with their “blind guides” who together made up the Jewish nation.” – Watchtower, November 1, 1995

2008 – The anointed

As a class, these anointed ones make up the modern-day "generation" of contemporaries that will not pass away "until all these things occur." This suggests that some who are Christ's anointed brothers will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins. – Watchtower, February 15, 2008

38

Does anyone have a scan? - JUNE 15 2009 WT Study Edition

by Ultimate Reality in

jw
friends

this one has an important article on the faithful steward and the governing body.

cannot find one anywhere.... .

thank you in advance!.

Ultimate Reality

This one has an important article on the Faithful Steward and the Governing Body. Cannot find one anywhere...

Thank you in advance!

39

We predicted World War I - How would you answer?

by VM44 in

some old timer jws (and probably some newer ones as well) say that they (the watchotwer) predicted world war i which broke out in 1914.. they apparently truly believe that statement.. how would you answer?.

Ultimate Reality

Logic, history, and the Society's Revelation interpretation prove this untrue.

The events that triggered WWI started in the summer of 1914 with war breaking out August 1st.

According to the Society, Christ was enthroned in Kingdom power on October 6, 1914 and war broke out in heaven, with Satan and the demons to be cast to earth at as the result of the heavenly war. Then, woe for the earth because the Devil has come down to you...

If this were true, the time of trouble would have began sometime after October 1914. Why did the war start in the summer, before Christ's enthronement and before Satan was cast to the Earth?

10

Christ presence started in 1914: Acknowledge since 1925?

by Nick! in

christ presence started in 1914: acknowledged since 1925?.

according to the second wt article in the march 15th edition of this year, paragraph 4 states that (translation) jehovahs witnesses recognize since 1925 that the first world war and the events which followed, constitute a clear evidence that christ presence in his heavenly kingdom started in 1914.. could someone kindly scan the english version of the above article and post-it online?.

it is the first time, at least personally, that i read such a statement in a wt literature.. according to the book captive of a concept by don cameron, chapter 3 page 22-23, the first time the wt recognized that christs presence happened in 1914, was only in 1943.. how is it possible that this article of 2009 points to the year 1925 as the time when the jw first recognized the true event associated with 1914?.

Ultimate Reality

For the record, in the 1940 edition of the Harp of God (first published in 1921). Starting on page 234 in the Our Lord's Return chapter, you will find they still had the "old" chronology. With 1799 as the beginning of the time of the end, 606 BCE as the beginning of the Gentile Times, and 1874 marking the beginning of Christ's presence.

28

Who really is the slave? The Governing Body!!!

by Ultimate Reality in

with the june 15th article (on jw.org) about the slave and governing body, we can see the planned progression of breaking the slave from the domestics.

therefore, lumping the claimed-anointed and the great crowd in the same group for all intents and purposes.

7:9;john 10:16) should not individual members of the anointed and the "other sheep" trust the slave appointed over them?

Ultimate Reality

yadda yadda: Listening to the June 15 article on jw.org and looking at the context of the articles since 2007, it appears the Governing Body itself is moving to become the The Faithful Slave or Steward.

The WT uses conflicting terms simultaneously in these articles, such as from the February 15 article:

"Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave."

Is the slave, slave class, and the faithful and discreet slave all the same thing? In these sentences it would seem so. But we know that really isn't the case. The scripture in Matthew 24:45 makes more sense (based on the Society's interpretation that this is a prophecy) if the slave or steward is the Governing Body. But they have never come out directly and said this. The slave was always a group of anointed ones and the GB was their representative. The change that is taking place is to elevate the GB. This makes more sense based on the wording of Matthew, the reality of how the organization is run, and most importantly, the increase in memorial partakers. The GB wants to distance itself and diminish the role of the newly claimed anointed ones.

My point is ultimately speculative, but keep a look out in the WT articles in the coming months.

28

Who really is the slave? The Governing Body!!!

by Ultimate Reality in

with the june 15th article (on jw.org) about the slave and governing body, we can see the planned progression of breaking the slave from the domestics.

therefore, lumping the claimed-anointed and the great crowd in the same group for all intents and purposes.

7:9;john 10:16) should not individual members of the anointed and the "other sheep" trust the slave appointed over them?

Ultimate Reality

It's all a word game. Historically, the Faithful and Discreet Slave is a composite group of anointed ones. Individually they are "domestics", as a whole they make up a class, and as a class they "feed" each other in the household. They have a representative, in the form of the Governing Body, which takes the lead in providing the "food" for the household.

Of course, in practice, this has never really operated this way. The top of of the organization (be it the office of the president or GB) determines policy and doctrine.

However, there is a subtle shift taking place. A shift that diminishes the position of all those that claim to be anointed and further elevates members of the Governing Body. Some of this they have brought upon themselves. The 1935 claim that the Great Crowd ingathering started and the ranks of the 144,000 were filled, could no longer be sustained with the passing of time. This had unintended consequences, with the memorial partakers increasing, probably to over 10,000 this year.

Now, they have been forced to act (in print at least) in order to reinforce and maintain the perception of concentrated authority in the hands of 9 men. I have never seen articles before that move to solidify the Governing Body as the actual "Slave" of their Matthew interpretation; it appears to be a growing underlying theme with the introduction of the Study Edition Watchtowers. This may be a significant move to the far-right. They are decaying from within with massive turn-over, they have a brain-drain, 2014 is closing, and the evil internet is exposing their true history. Some of the old guys may have backed off after the early 1980's and had some conscience about promoting their role after the 1975 and RV Franz debacles. But now (except for two) the GB is all new, have no direct knowledge of the issues of the 1970's, have no link to the 1914 era, and they think they are on a mission from God.

Ignorance and hubris is a dangerous combination.

28

Who really is the slave? The Governing Body!!!

by Ultimate Reality in

with the june 15th article (on jw.org) about the slave and governing body, we can see the planned progression of breaking the slave from the domestics.

therefore, lumping the claimed-anointed and the great crowd in the same group for all intents and purposes.

7:9;john 10:16) should not individual members of the anointed and the "other sheep" trust the slave appointed over them?

Ultimate Reality

With the June 15th article (on jw.org) about the Slave and Governing Body, we can see the planned progression of breaking the Slave from the Domestics. Therefore, lumping the claimed-anointed and the great crowd in the same group for all intents and purposes. Now that the individual anointed members have "no special insight" according to the 2008 revisions, the 2009 revisions are taking what we already know about the GB and putting it in print.

In typical fashion, the WT changes these "absolute truths" by redefining certain terms, then causing general confusion, and lastly coming to the rescue with clarification. Usually over a period of months.

Interestingly, what I missed on this topic recently, was paragraph three from the February 15, 2009 Watchtower in the article They "Keep Following The Lamb".

Notice the highlighted portion:

3 Jesus has appointed the faithful and discreet slave "over his domestics," that is, the individual members of the slave class, "to give them their food at the proper time." He has also appointed the-slave "over all his belongings." (Matt. 24:45-47) These "belongings"include the growing "great crowd" of "other sheep." (Rev. 7:9;John 10:16) Should not individual members of the anointed and the "other sheep" trust the slave appointed over them? There are many reasons why the slave class deserves our trust. Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave.

The statement and question confuses the traditional identity of the parties. Historically the slave is a composite group (with it's GB representative). But this question assumes the Slave is over the anointed and the other sheep. Perhaps by 2010 a Question From Readers will explicitly identify the Governing Body, from the 1st century to today, as being the actual Faithful and Discreet Slave?